Comments on: On John Piper and Christian Hedonism http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html Which is your way? Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:49:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: John Calvin Hall http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-439 John Calvin Hall Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:51:54 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-439 Addendum to Post 438 *... the One who DIED for me. oops! { Aorist, not Present Tense!} Addendum to Post 438

*… the One who DIED for me.

oops! { Aorist, not Present Tense!}

]]> By: John Calvin Hall http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-438 John Calvin Hall Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:49:10 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-438 I would agree with this if our inherent sin nature had not corrupted our "compass" for happiness. If you pursue after happiness rather than obedience to God's Word, you will invariably find nothing more than destruction. Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. If you want true and lasting joy, then obey God's Word, Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. Now, I have a choice. Either believe God's Word or believe John Piper. Though the decision will not always bring me happiness, it will honor the One who dies for me. Sorry JP, you lose. I would agree with this if our inherent sin nature had not corrupted our “compass” for happiness.

If you pursue after happiness rather than obedience to God’s Word, you will invariably find nothing more than destruction.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

If you want true and lasting joy, then obey God’s Word,

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Now, I have a choice. Either believe God’s Word or believe John Piper. Though the decision will not always bring me happiness, it will honor the One who dies for me.

Sorry JP, you lose.

]]> By: Hannah http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-388 Hannah Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:02:32 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-388 I just found your blog, and I like this summary a lot. What an interesting concept! Thanks for sharing. I just found your blog, and I like this summary a lot. What an interesting concept! Thanks for sharing.

]]> By: Eduardo http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-84 Eduardo Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:59:00 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-84 Vitali,<br/><br/>I am new to your blog. Found it through my wife who loves your wife's blogs. Anyway...I started reading yours today, and found this post very interesting. <br/><br/>I am a piper fan. I love his telescope example too. But what I think is the best way to understand God's seeking His own glory is this: God is the infinite perfection. He is the most valuable treasure. How will He show us His love for us? Well the same way us, as parents will try to do for our own kids...give them what is best for them...So God gives us and shows us the most valuable treasure there is...Himself! God is self-centered because He is the most valuable treasure...Because He loves us...He brings us to Himself through Christ (1 Peter 3:18).<br/><br/>God bless! Vitali,

I am new to your blog. Found it through my wife who loves your wife’s blogs. Anyway…I started reading yours today, and found this post very interesting.

I am a piper fan. I love his telescope example too. But what I think is the best way to understand God’s seeking His own glory is this: God is the infinite perfection. He is the most valuable treasure. How will He show us His love for us? Well the same way us, as parents will try to do for our own kids…give them what is best for them…So God gives us and shows us the most valuable treasure there is…Himself! God is self-centered because He is the most valuable treasure…Because He loves us…He brings us to Himself through Christ (1 Peter 3:18).

God bless!

]]> By: The Hedonese http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-79 The Hedonese Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:48:00 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-79 "Pleasure is the measure of our treasure" amen “Pleasure is the measure of our treasure” amen

]]> By: All Things Bright and Beautiful....Creative Flair Chic http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-77 All Things Bright and Beautiful....Creative Flair Chic Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:33:00 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-77 I just think he likes bing loved & glorified - kinda like people - I mean we are made in His image & if it makes Him happy - more glory to Him I say! I just think he likes bing loved & glorified - kinda like people - I mean we are made in His image & if it makes Him happy - more glory to Him I say!

]]> By: Vitali http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-75 Vitali Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:33:00 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-75 Piper gets flak for this quite often. And his answer is very similar to yours - God seeking his own glory does not mean he lacks it but that he wants us to see it more fully, which is for our benefit. Piper used an analogy of a telescope that brings the magnificence of planets and stars closer to us. When God glorifies himself, he makes his glory more apparent to us, which in turns results in our praise and ultimate pleasure. Piper gets flak for this quite often. And his answer is very similar to yours - God seeking his own glory does not mean he lacks it but that he wants us to see it more fully, which is for our benefit. Piper used an analogy of a telescope that brings the magnificence of planets and stars closer to us. When God glorifies himself, he makes his glory more apparent to us, which in turns results in our praise and ultimate pleasure.

]]> By: gummie http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-74 gummie Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:13:00 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-74 There is a debate over God's "self-centredness" here: <br/><br/>http://theologica.blogspot.com/2007/11/self-centered-god.html<br/><br/>I think a missing element (which is a very basic point) is what do we really mean when we say that God is glorified. <br/><br/>It cannot mean that God becomes more than what he was previously (since by that definition, God will be less than perfect before he was glorified). However, it can and it should mean that the perfections are God are so perceived that it results in Him being more praised and appreciated. That is, if God's aim is to show forth his perfections that results in praise, there is no incompatiblity of God's God-centredness with his love for man since his love for man is simply a showing forth of one of God's chief attributes - namely, love. There is a debate over God’s “self-centredness” here:

http://theologica.blogspot.com/2007/11/self-centered-god.html

I think a missing element (which is a very basic point) is what do we really mean when we say that God is glorified.

It cannot mean that God becomes more than what he was previously (since by that definition, God will be less than perfect before he was glorified). However, it can and it should mean that the perfections are God are so perceived that it results in Him being more praised and appreciated. That is, if God’s aim is to show forth his perfections that results in praise, there is no incompatiblity of God’s God-centredness with his love for man since his love for man is simply a showing forth of one of God’s chief attributes - namely, love.

]]> By: Huai Tze http://www.3waystolive.com/2007/11/on-john-piper-and-christian-hedonism.html#comment-73 Huai Tze Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:00:00 +0000 http://3waystolive.com/3waystolive/?p=101#comment-73 Thanks for summarising Christian Hedonism! Its useful.. However, I think one important omission in the summary is that the pleasure we seek in God is not just one of many pleasures (i.e. choose chocolate or choose God, both bring pleasure), but is the ultimate, truest and deepest possible satisfaction. As Lewis said, it is not that our desires are too strong, rather they are too weak. Can I suggest rewritting point 4 this way ?<br/><br/>4. When these two things (God seeking his own glory and us seeking pleasure in God) come together, we find the deepest pleasure - God is most glorified in us, when we are most satisfied in Him Thanks for summarising Christian Hedonism! Its useful.. However, I think one important omission in the summary is that the pleasure we seek in God is not just one of many pleasures (i.e. choose chocolate or choose God, both bring pleasure), but is the ultimate, truest and deepest possible satisfaction. As Lewis said, it is not that our desires are too strong, rather they are too weak. Can I suggest rewritting point 4 this way ?

4. When these two things (God seeking his own glory and us seeking pleasure in God) come together, we find the deepest pleasure - God is most glorified in us, when we are most satisfied in Him

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